Interview: Actor Noah Segan Talks About Knives Out, Trooper Wagner and Fandom
... and the future of Benoit Blanc
I recently had the pleasure of sitting down with Knives Out‘s very own Trooper Wagner, Noah Segan. We talked at length about making a murder mystery in 2019, his history with director Rian Johnson, Star Wars, and of course, the importance of being a “fan.”
Tell us a little bit about yourself! You’ve worked with Rian Johnson previously right?
At this point, I think Rian and I are inextricably connected forever. I think it’s safe to say that the the real lion’s share of the work that I’ve done, I owe to him. But before we started working together, I was born and raised in New York. I’m a fifth generation New Yorker. I did some acting as a kid but never had stage parents in the sort of traditional kind sense. I didn’t have anybody pushing me towards a career in show business, if anything it was more of an after school activity. And the result was that I was able to foster a love for movies and a love for storytelling, kind of beyond just a love of performing.
And so I, for awhile, as a teenager when I kind of got out of being a child actor, I pursued being a cinematographer. I wanted to be a cameraman. I was actually a camera assistant when I was introduced to Rian. He had been trying to make Brick for the better part of a decade and we met and became good buddies. When it was time to actually make the movie, I was lucky enough that he included me in it.
That’s awesome. How did you get involved with Knives Out specifically? Did you approach him or did he approach you?
At that point in our relationship, sharing our various creative endeavors had become a daily thing. We’re close enough that we share whatever we’re working on pretty early in the process.
So I had known for years and years that he wanted to do with a murder mystery in the style of an Agatha Christie, much like Brick is in the style of a Dashiell Hammett noir. So I had heard some of his ideas and was able to share some opinions. I forget exactly when, it was not much longer than a year ago, frankly, that he sent me a draft of the script. But in the draft there was a version of the character that I ended up playing. When he sent me the script he said, “how do you feel about playing this role?” And I said that I feel great about it.
What sort of prep did you do for the role of Trooper Wagner? Did you read and watch a bunch of mysteries?
Well, for years Rian had been supplying me with a steady stream of Christies because that was hole for me. I was a huge Hammett fan and a Chandler fan and really into that sort of gumshoe story, but the Poirot style Christie stuff – that was a bit of a hole for me. So I read a lot of that.
And for Knives Out specifically, I was trying to gauge as much as I could before I was on set with the other actors. Trying to figure out what the dynamics were going to be in my “clique.” And in my clique, or team, we have Daniel (Craig), we have LaKeith (Stanfield) and we have Ana (de Armas) who comes in and out, but is one of our team. She plays both sides (the detectives and the family). But a lot of the research was about trying to figure out what our dynamic was going to be and when I would be able to lean into the humor and the goofiness.
I actually had an epiphany recently that LaKeith’s character Elliott and I are doing a sort of left brain, right brain thing. They approach the same thing but from either end of the spectrum. Which is great for partners and also great for creating a structure for Benoit to play with.
That was something I found really interesting about Knives Out. With a lot of the Poirot/Christie style novels, Poirot feels very solitary because so much of it is centered through his view, but with Knives Out there’s a full team that feels very multi-faceted. Like a complete unit.
Yeah, I think it was so apparent that we were there to support Benoit, and give that character what he needs. And in the case of LaKeith, he had this incredible weight on his shoulders of being not only the exposition, and the storyteller, but also the straight man. And never forget for a moment that the straight man is usually funnier than the goofy guy. We just don’t know it at first glance. If he’s doing his job well it just becomes part of the tapestry. But I think the idea of giving this guy a bit of a Greek chorus was really fun and insightful on Rian’s part.
The cops are so helpful to Benoit instead of a hindrance (which can be the usual go-to dynamic for this sort of story) which I thought was fun. But the inclusion of your character being a “fan” specifically was really interesting to me because there has been this, you could say, resurgence of “the fan” – or fandoms – in the late 2000s that has become (for better or worse) a strong presence in our online oriented culture. It’s now Fandom with a capital F. So I was fascinated by Knives Out including a “Fan” as a key part of the story.
(Laughing) oh and Rian has definitely not interacted with any fandoms at all. What film could he possibly have done that some fans may have reacted strongly to right?
That’s why I thought it was so interesting that he included a character who was a “fan,” because it became a meta-commentary, but also because Trooper Wagner is ultimately a very positive character. How do you think including a fan in the story changes or shapes a murder mystery?
I want to believe that one of the main reasons that we do what we do is because we are fans. And I think the reason that people work within genres is because they are fans, right? They’re trying to scratch really specific itch that is very, very, very deep. And that’s why you play within genre. Because there is something about that style of storytelling, whether it’s the murder mystery or the detective story or the science fiction film, whatever it is, you want to play it, you identify with it and hopefully in a positive way, you feel an obligation to it because you feel a sense of ownership to it.
And I think that Rian’s choice to include the Wagner character is paying respects. It is acknowledging that he respects but also represents the audience. Because we are fans too. There’s no animosity there, only love and as silly as it (the movie) is, fun and respect. And I think that getting that across as part of a genre tale is very nice. It’s very sweet. And I want to believe that it’s something that Rian did because he wants people to know that we love the genre.
To go back a little bit, which Christie novels did you read and which of those were your favorites?
The Murder of Roger Ackroyd is probably my favorite. That’s the one that I feel like I’ve read the most. There’s something very stoic about that story that I really appreciate – it reads more like a screenplay. Murder is actually the first Christie novel that Rian ever gave to me. It’s about Poirot coming out of retirement because a fellow detective who was investigating a murder is murdered himself. So it’s a double murder and a mystery within a mystery. It becomes more of a “why done it” and “how done it” as opposed to a “whodunnit.” And that is echoed in Knives Out, and is also part of what makes it so exciting. The “who” aspect goes away for a while and then comes back in the very end.
As a cast, you all have such great chemistry on screen. Did you guys have a bonding process? What was it like working with an ensemble like that?
Oh yes. We had a huge bonding process that originally traces back to Jamie (Lee Curtis). We did most of our shooting in three main locations for the house: two super old houses and a little stage. The little stage was for some of the quirkier rooms that would be pretty impossible to find in an actual house so they had to be built. And with the houses, there wasn’t space for individual dressing rooms and what not, so the wardrobe, hair and makeup trailers were far away. So on day one or two of shooting Jamie was like “you know what, I’m not going back to the trailer. That’s silly. This is a cool house and I’m comfortable with you guys so let’s hang out.” And because it was Jamie, we all followed her lead. They ended up putting card tables and chairs in this little rumpus room in the basement and that’s where we would sit. We played parlor games like charades, and run lines and hang out.
Even when we moved houses and there was no longer a basement, then we would hang in the stairwell. We were all used to being together at that point and we wanted to keep hanging out and drinking coffee together.
It sounds almost like you guys were in a play.
(Laughing) It kind of was. But you know, we were all very much in it together and wanted to spend that time together.
To go back to the fan thing a little bit, do you consider yourself a capital F “fan?”
Yes, I’m a big collector. I like to collect cameras and watches, artwork, posters, – I have a lot of posters for films I like. Especially if Mondo releases one. And I mentioned it earlier but I’m a big (Raymond) Chandler fan. Like to the point where when we were making Brick that I would harangue Rian and tell him that he was making a Hammett movie and not a Chandler. I’m an LA guy now so I have a deep love of Chandler. And of course, I do love my Star Wars.
What’s your favorite Chandler?
Film-wise, maybe The Big Sleep, but it’s tough because you get into adaptations and The Long Goodbye is the best adaptation of his work of all time. But for his fiction, my favorite is his short story “Red Wind.” It’s about how when the Santa Ana winds blow through Los Angeles it increases the city’s propensity for murder and crime.
And what’s your favorite Star Wars?
(Laughing) The Last Jedi obviously.
Of course. And, assuming you were a fan of Star Wars before you got cast, what was it like getting the call and being told you were going to get to be a part of it?
I remember when he told me and I thought “this is like getting to be eight years old again.” This is like going back to the world that inspired you and made you feel like telling stories in the first place. And that was also the feeling I got when I showed up on set and got to put on the pilot’s costume. Which I’m pretty sure was my halloween costume when I was eight years old. It really came full circle. And was also very unique because it was Star Wars but also still felt exactly like being on a Rian Johnson set with him playing music in between takes and people eating snacks while running lines. It felt very positive and laid back and yet there was the understanding that this felt like a continuation of the game that we’ve all been playing for our entire lives. Not a culmination because it didn’t feel final or like an end. More like we were doing something that we’ve always been doing just on a larger scale, with life size, fully functioning X-Wings.
You mentioned that you consider yourself a sort of “collector.” Did your specific expression of fandom influence or inform your performance of Trooper Wagner?
Well in a way yes! Trooper Wagner originally had a different name. But when Rian was formalizing the script he asked me what I thought of the name and if I wanted a different one what it should be. And our group of friends had recently become obsessed with The Ring Cycle by Richard Wagner. We actually all went to see it together in San Francisco. You know, just a group of men openly weeping through a twenty hour opera. And so my character became Trooper Wagner as a nod to our shared obsession.
You’re a fairly new dad, are you excited to introduce your kids to any of your fandoms or are you going to wait and see what they get into on their own?
I am excited when my kid is excited about something and introduces it to me. My two-year old is very into this book series about “Pete the Cat.” They’re very simple early reader stories about a cat and his family doing pretty mundane stuff but she loves them and it brings me such joy to see her discover what resonates with her. We don’t give her a lot of screen time but we’ve been playing certain things from our childhood, like The Muppet Movie soundtrack, and it’s great to share the things that we loved as children, but really it’s just exciting to see what resonates with her and to foster and support it.
How did it feel to get praise for your performance as Trooper Wagner by Mr Green himself, Michael McKean, on Twitter?
Oh I died. You’re actually talking to a ghost right now. I died and I was buried and because I have tattoos it wasn’t even in a Jewish cemetery. But seriously, he is such an inspiration. Everything he’s done for comedy for a generation. It meant so much to me.
Do you think, based off of the success of Knives Out that there is the potential for more ensemble mysteries? Like an anthology series where maybe we get to see Benoit tackling different mysteries with different families or groups?
I mean obviously this is not is not his first rodeo. He solved the mystery of what happened with the tennis champ. He had that New Yorker profile.
Right, I read the tweet about it.
So he’s a very capable detective. And there are a lot of mysteries out there. So I think there’s definitely a possibility. And we had so much fun doing this. I was with a lot of the cast the other day and we all agreed that this was some of the most fun we’ve ever had making a movie. And so it would be great to keep it moving and continue the experience. I just hope, if we do, we don’t do it in Boston in December again. Maybe somewhere like the Bahamas or the south of France. A nice tropical location. People get murdered all over the world after all.
This interview has been shortened and condensed for clarity.
(Photo: Lionsgate)
Want more stories like this? Become a subscriber and support the site!
—The Mary Sue has a strict comment policy that forbids, but is not limited to, personal insults toward anyone, hate speech, and trolling.—
Have a tip we should know? tips@themarysue.com
