After three years as the crown jewel of Apple TV+, Ted Lasso came to a close last week with the season three finale—which (depending on who you ask) may or may not also be doubling as the sports dramedy’s series finale. With its earnest warmth, quippy wit, and swelling speeches, the series has wormed its way into fans’ cynical hearts, and the show’s eclectic use of music (everything from classic broadway to gangster rap and everything in between) has been a key part of building the show’s identity.
Prior to the season three finale, The Mary Sue got the chance to talk to Tony Von Pervieux, Ted Lasso‘s music supervisor, about just that:
Lauren Coates (TMS): To start things off— for people like myself who aren’t super familiar with how the music supervision process works, what sort of timeline do you operate on once you’ve got a script? When do you know when music is gonna come into play?
Tony Von Pervieux: It really depends on the show, but obviously TV moves faster than film. So, you get the script, and in its infancy stage you comb through for any potential visual vocals—like people singing something, or if there’s a line from a song that you have to potentially clear because you have to make sure you have those rights before the actor sings it.
So you’re combing for that first, and then you’re looking through for potential song spots, right? Just so you can have it in the back of your head, because then the process from there is that they shoot the episode and then they start piecing it together, editing it, and then you (in postproduction) start working with the editors and producers on figuring out songs.
The tone of the show, where the music is gonna be placed, where it should be a song, where it should be score. And then from that point on, it’s just selecting music that you think would work for that for that specific scene. And of course, sometimes you’re going through quite a few songs, and sometimes you hit it right at the first attempt.
So it’s quite a process and it changes all the time, right? And it’s per-episode, too. Some episodes might take a little bit longer to figure out and some might be a little bit quicker. Then, of course, after you select all the songs and everyone’s on board and has approved what’s being used in the show, then you have to go out and clear the songs that you’re using. So that process can take from a few days to weeks or even a month.
TMS: How do you determine whether or not a scene needs score versus soundtrack?
Von Pervieux: It’s hard sometimes to tell. But if you know how to read the script, you can figure out moments that potentially would be sung. So typically for a show that uses songs often, we may want to open up the episode with a song, right? So you put that as a placeholder there and then as you continue to go through the script and you find moments where it could be a montage, multiple scenes coming together, then you do a marker for that as a potential song spot. And if you really have a grasp of the script and the content and there’s something that really stands out and grabs you, sometimes you’re even thinking about which songs you could potentially pitch for that spot.
TMS: I was reading some of the other interviews you’ve done, and at least initially in season one, a lot of the show’s music selections came down to Jason Sudeikis’ and your personal tastes. Now that you’ve had a couple more seasons to sort of get familiar with the show and the tone and the kind of musical identity you wanted to have, how do you narrow down your own personal rolodex of music to know which songs are going to be a good fit for the show and which ones aren’t?
Von Pervieux: After season one and figuring out where we are at with tone, it’s a little bit easier. When there’s something relating to Roy’s character, or Ted’s, you have a range of songs that potentially you could pull from—artists, genres, whatever might make sense. But I think for the most part, like when I’m pulling material for a specific scene, if the producers or editors are saying, “Oh we’re looking for a song for this specific scene, this is what it’s doing,” then I put together a playlist for them so that they can go through it.
Because some of them might make sense to me in my head, and then when you put it into the picture, maybe it doesn’t fit as perfectly. You have to find what works perfectly for that scene and then of course, cut it correctly. Cutting the song, making sure it fits, making sure that the vocals don’t step on dialogue, all that stuff. Sometimes instrumentals can be key because the song works, but then there’s something distracting in the song, or the vocal is stepping on dialogue and then it distracts. You don’t want it to distract, you just want it to enhance the scene.
So it’s just the process of figuring out: These songs might work. Let’s try these. If those don’t work, let’s go back to the drawing board and figure out something else. But as the seasons have gone, it’s still kind of the same process. You definitely have an idea of what might work best, and then of course Jason is still the deciding factor—he’s the creative vision behind the show. So he gets to decide what at the end of the day is gonna work best for that scene.
TMS: Other than yourself, how many hats are in the ring when you’re deciding what song is going to make the cut?
Von Pervieux: I’m working with the producers. I’m working with the writers. I’m working with the editors. I’m working with the music editor. It’s a collaborative process between all of them and myself to figure out what’s the best use for each scene. Sometimes it comes from me, sometimes it’s scripted and comes from the producers who, in post, want to use a specific song. And then sometimes the editors are pulling stuff because they’re cutting and dealing with picture and they get inspired and find something that works. Really, it’s a collaboration between all of us.
TMS: What would you say the ratio is between songs that are specifically mentioned in the script versus songs that are picked after the fact?
Von Pervieux: Oh, I mean, there are a bunch of scripted songs—this season, they went to Amsterdam, right? So in 3×06, there were a bunch of scripted songs because they were performing at the jazz club, right? So we had, we had to clear those selections, which came from the writer-producers. Then of course, the Bob Marley song they scripted—the song plays at the stadium in the beginning and then they come back to it at the end of the episode and, and it’s a whole big visual vocal sing along. So that episode had, you know, maybe 30% of songs that were scripted. Then the rest, the 70%, is chosen in postproduction.
The majority of episodes are probably more like 10% chosen right off the bat or scripted, and then the 90% is chosen once in postproduction.
TMS: In “La Locker Room Aux Folles”, we saw a few songs from La Cage. Was that in the script? Because if I remember correctly, that wasn’t the original title of the episode—it got changed after the fact.
Von Pervieux: That was Jason. Obviously he loves musicals and yeah, La Cage Aux Folles, that one was his choice. But it was cool to bookend with “I Am What I Am” from that same album. So, yeah, that, that was his choice for those two.
TMS: Another specific music cue this season that stood out to me was—I think it was at the end of episode two—there’s a little conversation between Ted and Trent Crimm in the office. I think it’s Andrew Bird playing in the background.
Von Pervieux: Yeah, “Night’s Falling” by Andrew Bird. That was a good one. I think we got to use it for about two minutes, which is always great when you get to use the song for a decent amount of time because it’s tough when you’re trying to get the moment across in like 15-20 seconds. But we really got to use it at the end of that episode and into the end credits, and of course Andrew Bird is amazing, so that was a very cool moment for us.
TMS: When you’re looking for songs for specific characters, do you have a deliberate sort of through-line in genre, tone, or maybe certain instruments that you want to repeat with characters? Do you have ideas in your head of, like which characters get, which styles of music?
Von Pervieux: Not quite that specific for instrumentation. I mean, Higgins is jazz, right? So it’s pretty fun if you’re sitting in the office and hey, maybe we’re gonna use a jazz cue. But the good thing about this show is the versatility in the music—you have indie artists, some mid-level artists, and then you have some of the big catalog we’ve used in the past, like The Rolling Stones. We get to use a lot of music that takes you back. It’s very reminiscent of maybe my childhood, or some really great mainstream catalogue music.
Certain characters are definitely easier to do—when we’re thinking of Roy Kent, we’re thinking of more aggressive-type music, right? So you’re thinking of punk, we go in that direction first, and then if it doesn’t feel right, we try something else. But we’ll have a specific genre that we point to first, and if it fits the scene, great, and if it’s not the right song, then we continue down that path and find the right song in that genre.
But Roy’s character is always fun because he’s just—there’s a use in an episode which hasn’t aired yet [Author’s Note: Von Pervieux is talking about “Red Right Hand” by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds.] that’s one of my favorites, and you’ll see why. For me it just worked perfectly, and I’m glad at the end of the day everyone felt the same—you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about when you see it.
TMS: That leads me into my next question, which was gonna be (without spoiling) “Are there any specific titles that people should be watching out for?” I know there was a playlist on Apple Music a while back, and people were parsing through it in excruciating detail, trying to figure out what certain songs meant.
Von Pervieux: Well, it’s hard without spoiling. But it’s cool because, you know, the show, they often do a lot of Easter eggs, which is exciting, right? It’s cool to see how fans react and are really, you know, motivated to figure out like, “Oh my God, what? Why?” and it’s really cool to see that. I think that means everyone’s doing their job correctly, to get people so excited about each episode of Ted Lasso, which for me is the best show on television.
TMS: Speaking of Easter Eggs, my favorite character is Trent Crimm, by, by no small margin, and he reps a lot of different artists this season with his t-shirts.. He wore T-Rex, he wore Dolly Parton, he wore the, he wore Midlake. I was wondering if you have ideas for specific characters, and their music taste? Do you think about like, “oh, I bet Keeley would really love so and so, or oh, I bet Rebecca is a huge fan of ___?”
Von Pervieux: Interestingly enough, we created a playlist for Ted, right? Because in the, in the beginning of the season, he mentioned a breakup playlist, so we made what we think Ted would be listening to. It’s cool to like dive into what these characters might, you know, might often be listening to. And yeah, Trent is great because his is so much of that indie, goth, dark stuff, all of it. It’s fun, because like some of the uses are just perfect. Like the Leonard Cohen use (“Everybody Knows”) was great. It wasn’t necessarily about him, but obviously he was pivotal to that scene, you know—that and the Kinks song we used recently for him. A lot of people relate to Trent and his character, and I think they might even be listening to the same stuff. So it’s good when we can highlight that, and really get it right.
TMS: Before I let you go, it’s still up in the air as to whether or not there’s gonna be another season. But do you have any great white whale songs you’d want to try and sneak in somehow if there were to be another season?
Von Pervieux: Oh, man, I mean, if there’s another season … we haven’t used Zeppelin but, obviously Zeppelin’s tough, right? It’s costly, and it’s tough to clear. But the good thing with this type of show is that you have better success at clearing songs that are a little more difficult, because people realize that the show is great and you’re gonna use the song respectfully in the scene. So they might be on the list, if there’s ever another season. Obviously, there’s a bunch of songs and artists that I’d love to use, and it just depends on timing. You have to find the right scene—sometimes it lines up, sometimes it doesn’t—but last season I got to use Radiohead, and that was really exciting.
TMS: I remember reading another interview where you mentioned wanting to use Radiohead!
Von Pervieux: I know, and for me it was a shocker, because we were scoring that scene and there was potential to use a song at the end. I was like, “Oh, this is a really good chance to use Radiohead,” for the emotion behind it, and I sent it off to the editor. Of course, she’s a Radiohead fan too, and we got to use it, and Jason loved it, so sometimes it just works out like that.
(featured image: Apple TV+)
Published: Jun 5, 2023 11:02 am